I was just flying a lot of the light fighters in atmo in 3.24.2. Even in a thinner atmo of moons my ship, in NAV mode, topped out around 290 m/s max or so. Yes my limiter was confirmed at max. CIG, are you allergic to supersonic aircraft? Slower and slower after very patch now. All we get in response is "Trust me bro this will work better". When will you guys get the picture it's not working? Players don't want this! Before sure it was too fast..at least for your average player.. especially in space with no point of reference. People would go zipping past each other. It's not that they probably didn't want to merge.. it's because they didn't have any sense of scale.. there's no reference in space. So sure slowing it down a bit made sense. Fast forward to today. THIS.. the speeds we have now? This does not make sense. They just take all the fun out of flying. Racing? Ruined. Low flying? Ruined. Dogfighting? Ruined. Who is this game for? people just want to pilot large slow ships? Making a cap ship slow is fine... nobody is having issues with that. Did anyone think all the space planes of the future would be limited to sub-sonic speeds? I sure didn't think that. Here's where I have an issue with this, they "tried" encouraging slower fights... but now they figured they should just force them... instead of giving players ways to realize they were flying too fast. Players not knowing any better doesn't mean you should drive the speeds down into the dirt. Teach them, give them feedback.. what you are doing now? This isn't the answer. And here's the other thing: you wanted closer dogfights.. not ships shooting at each other from 1km plus away. Sure I'm all for that. But the solution to getting closer fights is NOT to slow it down so much that a modern passenger plane would pass you! This is a geometry issue like many have tried pointing out before! What does that mean? I have been a massive aviation fan a for a long time. I even wanted to go into Aerospace Engineering when I was in high school. Ultimately I did not but I did study a lot of that before picking another path. I'm also not a professional pilot.. but I do fly in a lot of realistic flight sims.. and know real pilots as well. This does not make me any sort of expert on this no... but I understand the basics. In DCS there's a lot of things you need to understand when you are in a dogfight with another player. Ultimately though if you are in a circle fight it comes down to turn rate. In a real plane "turn rate" is not the same thing as a lot of people might think of in SC ship stats. In SC that's the rate at which you can spin and it doesn't have anything to do with how fast you are going or whatever since you can decouple. No a better thing to call what I'm going to talk about is probably "Delta-V" if anyone is familiar with Kerbal or something. It's how fast you can change your direction of travel while flying through space. Yes in atmosphere aerodynamics are a factor but in space it all comes down to how strong your maneuvering thrusters (or even mains if you get them pointed the right way) are. Now in SC you can't just make those super strong.. I get it. You get things like pip wiggle if you make the change in direction too fast (the acceleration change.. or I think they call that jerk with the devs). Sure totally get that. And you don't want ships so freaking fast your average player can't fathom just how fast they are about to fly by the other guy. I'm also fine with how the whole nav thing works etc. No my issue is how slow the SCM and in atmo flight is. It's abysmal. But here's the thing you CAN have a bit higher speeds and still have people fighting closer in. How? well it has to do with was I just brought up... how fast you can actually change your direction. In flight in an atmosphere... with real jets or planes they call it your turn rate. Which ultimately effects your turn radius. If you have a tighter turn radius than the other guy you can turn inside his turn circle and get guns on him first. In SC calling it that would be confusing because people think of turn rate as to how fast you can spin the ship (which isn't wrong to call it that). So lets call it Delta-V for lack of better term. But ultimately that will determine how tight of a turn you can make. You can go faster and just give the ship more thrust to turn which in turn makes it a tighter turn. Having two ships with tight turns will ultimately pull them in closer to each other. Anyways I already planned on putting a bunch of math in a post about this... but I dont' have that ready and most people would just gloss over it anyways. I will still probably make this post later for anyone that wants to read it and see what I mean by all this specifically and that it can work without making is piss poor slow. That said I know this is NOT an easy thing to code or balance or anything like that. I give my utmost respect to the people trying to code this stuff I know it's not an easy thing to do. I am certainly no expert in this myself. I just have an idea that this can work differently. It doesn't need to keep getting slower CIG. It's not fun. It's not doing what you wanted to accomplish completely. It did it somewhat but now it's just getting bad and well past backfiring. It's backfiring because you've gone too much with the slowdown. There has to be a better way of doing this. Just food for thought. And yes I'm very frustrated with this. I really like the game otherwise and want to see it succeed. The job you are doing for the rest of the game, mostly, is very impressive. Please consider all the feedback the players are giving you about how painfully slow ships are. I get what you are trying to do and why you are doing some of this but there's got to be a better way. I'll try and get that more comprehensive post out when I get some time... but I want to offer diagrams and math to show what can be done. Oh and one more thing... this 290 m/s max speed i hit was in NAV mode... in atmo of Daymar. Hell it wasn't much different on Yela. This is NAV MODE. It's not even combat. Why? Just why? What's the point of that? P.S. YES I made sure I had max power to my engines and speed limiter was max as well. This was in atmosphere not space. Post-P.S. Apparently this is not consistant? Tried it again to be SURE I was at max speed limiter (I was) and max engines, etc. Soon as I got down to like 50m or below from the ground.. bam! stuck at 280-300m/s in the arrow. Flew to a different part of Daymar... then I was going 400 m/s. So there is something fishy going on here in atmo! Still I stand by the fact things are overall a bit too slow. But CIG look into this.. what's going on here?