It feels like half the threads on Spectrum are debating PvE vs PvP. There is much intolerance, condescension and people arguing with others whose minds they have no hope of changing. I consider myself a "PvE moderate", to use a political analogy. I definitely prefer PvE, but still enjoy the thrill of gameplay that carries more risk than NPCs usually provide. So...while acknowledging that the last thing the community wants or needs is another thread on the topic, I wanted to explain why I have taken the position I have. I'm speaking only for myself and won't be throwing out hyperbolic statements that pretend to know what other people want or think. For the record, I fully expect the sort of "care bear" and "ok, boomer" responses prevalent elsewhere. I'm 51 years old and have four kids, one of which is a few months shy of making me a grandfather; another is in a band that gigs often - sometimes out of town - for which I run sound and lights. I have four aging parents/in-laws that sometimes need assistance and whom I enjoy spending time with even when they don't. I have a day job as a software engineer where I'm relied upon heavily. I have a mortgage, two car payments and an investment portfolio to manage. And I have friends -- not digital SC org mates but actual analog friends, with whom I like to share a bottle of wine or watch a ball game. I love to play video games, too, but I will never have the time to invest in honing combat skills and min/max'ing ships necessary to make me a competitive at PvP. I might get an hour or two to play a few times a week. I've seen many folks in the PvP camp counter with "not our fault, why not pick a hobby that better suits your lifestyle?" Which is absurd. What could better suit a busy lifestyle than an activity where I can just chill in my own basement, on my own schedule, in a comfortable chair, with no deadlines, pressures or responsibilities? That sounds blissful, if you ask me. There are other games besides SC, to be sure, but I am fascinated by space and enjoy simulations. When I get a couple hours to play, I like to do a little bit of everything. Mining, exploring, trading, missions, and yes, sometimes combat, too. But if I have two hours to play and spend ninety minutes of it mining, I want to see some kind of return on my investment. If I get ganked once a week or twice or month and lose everything, I'm honestly ok with that. I like the tension that comes with running cargo through dangerous space. But if I get ganked every time (probably by an immature 13-year old kid with nothing else going on in their life, who thinks its funny or enjoyable to ruin things for others), it's going to get old fast and I'll probably switch to a different game. If lots of others follow suit because they feel the same? That's going to get old to CIG really fast... I can sympathize with PvPers who cry foul at being labeled as something when, in fact, it's probably a small percentage of people making the entire PvP community look bad. It's no different than everyday life, where generalizations are usually borne out of a kernel of truth -- but still represents only a tiny minority. Whether it's racists or terrorists or fringe politicians, the overwhelmingly vast majority of people denounce the radicals among them but, unfortunately, often get painted with the same broad stroke. Fair or not, if 5% of PvP players have the ability to ruin 100% of my limited gaming time, it's not going to sit well with me. I truly don't understand why this appeals to some. Perhaps it's because with age tends to come wisdom, and with wisdom comes empathy and an understanding that others deserve to be treated with respect. I couldn't fathom enjoying or feeling good about myself because I was able to repeatedly ruin something that another person was trying to enjoy. Just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it's just that griefers are mostly immature, idiot kids who simply haven't learned respect, or in some twisted way thinking they're earning respect by repeatedly "winning" against inferior competition (such as 51-year old men with insufficient time to 'get gud'). It's akin to an NFL running back playing in a youth football game, completely destroying the kids trying to tackle him, gloating and mocking them while they sit there crying. Ruined for the kids, for their parents, for everyone. Then the NFL player justifies it by saying, "but that's how I enjoy playing the game, go play something else if you don't like it". I hope CIG succeeds in creating something that works for all play styles, but that's a tough nut to crack. Many others have tried and failed. I'm a long-time Elite Dangerous player who recently transitioned to SC. For all it's faults, I think ED handles this issue gracefully, allowing single-player gaming in a multi-player universe for those who want it. I split time between solo and open, but honestly, that's not a fair comparison. ED has 400 billion star systems and most of the populated systems are way, way bigger than Stanton. Even in open, it's fairly rare to see other real players outside of popular stations and community events. In many hundreds of hours of gaming, I was only ganked once and I was so unprepared to see another player that I didn't even realize it was happening until it was over. I think SC will ultimately end up with as many or more players all crammed into a universe that's microscopically tiny compared to ED. Anyway, that's my $0.02. Looking at the length of my post, $0.02 is a real bargain. :slightly_smiling_face:)