Greetings again: At the German GameStar Forum a fellow backer posted a discord exchange of Yogi and present players at Shadow Mosis Discord that apparently took plaxe some time yesterday. Unfortunately for the most only Yogis answers have been posted. But in my opinion this exchange and Yogis answers on MM / current SC combat should by all means be brought to Spectrum for discussion! Edit: thanks to Hater115 we have a more complete version of the discord discusion. I added the questions to the answers, original posted answers in "italilc". Member 1: Can you say something about the reasoning why we have oversteer or non-infinite rotational acceleration to begin with? Yogi_CIG: (Replying to Member 1): I'd say because you're flying ships, not debug cameras. Without jerk the ship rotations do not feel as nice as want them but in general we will not instantly stop the rotations because you let go of the controls. Also rotation accels on the Gladius are the same. They just take longer because we slightly bumped the rot speeds. We have jerk on the todo list and I think we'll probably cut down the rotation speeds anyways so we'll evaluate that then Member 2 (Replying to Yogi): If the goal is to create good positional combat, you typically want ships with higher angular velocity, not lower. Right now the Gladius and Arrow can actually crank the combat radius down pretty well if both players are pushing, but the other archetypes just end up jousting in a large radius due to their lack of angular velocity. The only reason you would decrease angular velocity is if the ships have no ability to maintain a short combat distance. https://i.imgur.com/ooCfSUv.png Yogi_CIG (Replying to Member 2): Its not just about that. The combat gameplay is currently faster than I want it to be. So once I have some of the internally discussed changes we'll see what we'll do with the tuning. Member 3 (Replying to Yogi): Fast as in TTK or the pace of the fight? Yogi_CIG (Replying to Member 3): Pace of fight I find too fast, TTK I find too long Hater115 given context: At this point, multiple users show Yogi examples of "low TTK" encounters. Yogi_CIG : That is not typical, we have loads of fights that don't look like that Member 4 (Replying In reply to Yogi): most of my fights feel like that.. especially with cannons - been doing private duels with repeaters and they feel soooo much more fun and fair Yogi_CIG (Replying to Member 4): yeah weapon tuning is not on point. I think it is better than 3.22 but its a placeholder anyways ... proper tuning is for 4.0 Yogi_CIG (commenting on a specific weapon) either way ... there will be some changes to 3.23.2 but remember also that is just a place holder Hater115 given context: Yogi talks back and forth on specific weapon balance and previous balancing decisions for a bit longer until being challenged to PVP Member 5: Would you like to hop into ac with some of us? We can show you the more nuanced decisions of using lasers repeaters and how to kite... Yogi_CIG: (Replying to Member 5): No, I am really not interested in the current game. As I said, 3.23 is just prepping stuff for 4.0 and there are bigger things on the way. I still stand by what I said in relation to pacing. There is an imbalance in the TTK and the game does not feel how we want it to feel yet. And I do think this is due to the pacing. If I would need to describe it I'd say I want to see more fighting but less hitting before one pops if that makes sense. Hater115 given context: Member 6 (Replying to Yogi's earlier "TTK I find too long" comment): Dude, what game does CIG have that we don't? I get you don't want to talk about it but you can two-three shot people in this game. If that is long TTK I can't wait till you make it where I can oneshot everyone! Yogi_CIG: (Replying to Member 6): When I say imbalance in TTK I mean that there are a lot of ships that don't feel right. The Buccy and Cutlass e.g. I find quite being too tanky at times ... may that be due to issues with the setup or simply numbers ... some ships take too long to die under consistent fire. That does not mean that this is true for all ships ... but I still find the pacing too fast at times. Hater115 given context: After this, Yogi was questioned on the release cadence of upcoming fixes, responding with: Yogi_CIG: That's a bit mean (He says this because someone called decision makers "monkies"). I do NOT do flight tuning. That is the job of the vehicle experience team. I keep track of overall combat and the flight experience but I am not doing the day to day work on that. And if the team decided to go for 3.23.2 then they made the decision for a reason and I trust them. | (Member asks for a specific fix) | Possibly yes, we'll see ... again, don't expect too much stuff in 3.23 ... 4.0 is way bigger than 3.23 and we'd rather focus on that Extended last exchange with Hater115 given contex: Member 7 (Replying to Yogi): Is positional combat being looked at as well? Is the goal for fighters to be wrestling for position and low TTK applies only if someone actually gains position? Yogi_CIG: (Replying to Member 7): that's space combat in general. Short answer is yes Member 7 (Replying to Yogi): Current combat is very nose to nose which is why I asked. Not very positional at all. Glad that positional is the goal! Yogi_CIG:(Replying to Member 7): thats why discuss egg shapes, jerk, etc Yogi_CIG: Possibly yes, we'll see ... again, don't expect too much stuff in 3.23 ... 4.0 is way bigger than 3.23 and we'd rather focus on that Original source: https://www.gamestar.de/xenforo/threads/offizieller-star-citizen-thread-part-xii-ilw-ended-um-1-uhr-3-23-1-live.465030/page-1599#post-21325843 Thanks again to Hater155 for digging up the questions to Yogis answers. Two things I would like to comment on : First - such an ongoing discourse over several hours that contains important information about the future and thoughts regarding space combat should be moved to an official medium aka Spectrum or repeated there by the official side (Yogi). Yogi's statement that everything in 3.23. is just a placeholder for completely different balancing in 4.0 is the first time I heard of this. At the 3.23 release it was stated to be a starting point with constant MM iterations on ship combat in following patches also based on backer feedback. But here Yogi is effectively saying he doesn't care about any balancing and changes to MM in the 3.23 cycle, because he's already working on the next new version for 4.0. So all 3.23 MM / combat backer feedback is useless as we are now giving feedback to an already obsolete version, though it was just released to us! Secondly - what Yogi is looking for and why space combat feels too fast under MM in 3.23 is - ship accelerations are too high. Ships can go from 0 - 100% thrust way too fast. All maneuver thrusters are still as powerful as the main engine itself. This is what causes the +20g maneuvers and dragonfly or hummingbird type zigzag movement and ability to constantly circle strafe. Ship acceleration in all 6DoF must be massively throttled down (min. -33%) so that ships can no longer evade in any of the six spatial directions at 1-3s. (Edit: if you are curious - use the "acceletration limiter" and reduce ship thurster strength just by a little and you will notice how much more realistic ship movment suddenly feels!) With reduced acceleration the space combat dance slows down by itself automatically, as it will take longer to change your position. This would fundamentally defuse the “nosing” (weapon always on target) and DPS race of “who does more damage before exploding”. The winner of a space battle is not a matter of “who tanks the longest and has higher DPS” as is currently the case, but pilot skill in controlling your ship becomes important again. Currently ships only drift because they are too fast to change direction at high speed, but not because a ship weighting hundreds of tons has actually to be moved. CIG had already recognized the problem and wanted to introduce a “ramp-up time” for maneuvering thrusters so that they don't immediately react with 100% thrust when changing direction. But then John Pritchet (former dev for everything space combat and pyhsics) left CIG. I guess he took the knowledge and notes on how SC physics/space combat should evolve with him. As a consequence Mr Pritchet's knowledge is gone and Yogi seems to only tweak rotation speeds and maximum speeds to find what he is missing for MM, instead of fundamentally reducing ships acceleration in all 6DoF and adjusting it via an added "ramp-up" so ship thrusters can no longer react with 100% power at the first push of a button. Regards HkS73 .