Who here remembers when Ultima Online was a new thing? Who remembers trying to get your skill at Mining up to 10, only to have some guy run into the frame, kill you for no reason, "lol noob" at your ghost, and take all your stuff? I recall one particularly irritating encounter with a guy who added insult to injury afterward, when I could hear the 'scissors' sound effect that meant he'd just cut up my clothes to make bandages. Then he killed my horse because why not? Ultima Online very, very nearly tanked after three years. The primary driver of lost subscriptions, according to the devs, was people simply did not like getting killed without restriction by other players. I remember the ghost towns, going days without seeing another player. It didn't get better until they reversed that policy, just in the nick of time. That game is still around today, 21 years later. Other MMOs attempted to recreate the 'feel' of early UO's Open Season PVP style. Most of them aren't around anymore. Now, before you get into a huff, note that I am NOT saying Open PVP should not be a thing. The most memorable experiences I had in old-school UO were PVP-related. Nothing ever got my heart thumping like the guy who pickpocketed the key to my boat and sailed away in it. Thankfully I had another in my bank vault so I ran back, cast a teleport spell on it, and appeared on the deck, catching the guy red handed. I was able to defeat him, get my key back, and then--because he was now a ghost on the deck of my ship--dropped anchor and logged out for a week. I don't know that he ever got back to shore. (There was no such thing as /stuck back then, you had to call a GM to deal with stuff like that) What I AM saying--and, by starting this thread, am hoping to get constructive input on--is, what lessons can be learned from the games that came before? Other games attempted to create the feel of UO's original Open Season PVP, but none lasted very long. Shadowbane was perhaps the most famous attempt, but there were others. The point is they all lost their subscribers and evaporated. Quickly. With that in mind, I raise the question: Think of other games you played over the years, and their PVP systems. What worked? What didn't work?