Freeman@MrFreeman79
We tested the Polaris in Arena Commander - Torpedoes are not for this game yet
We tested the Polaris in Arena Commander - Torpedoes are not for this game yet
December 17th 2024 at 7:28 pm
PolarisHeya
Just tested it with 4 people in Pirate Swarm in Arena Commander (Live), were we have less server lag, desync etc. And I'm even more disappointed now.
Not sure if AC is a good testing bed, but it's certainly better then PU or EPTU.
Our setup was
1x Pilot (S3 missiles)
1x Bespoke S6 gunner
1-2x Quad Cannon Gunner (1 quad gunner swapped to torpedoes during Idris fight).
1x Torpedo Gunner
We saved all the big guns/ammo for last, the Idris.
First we killed all the adds(small ships like Hammerheads, Corsairs, Gladius's etc) then we turned our attention to the Idris
Avoiding the Idris fire was fairly easy and she's quite slow.
We started getting the shields down on the Idris, so S3 missiles, Bespoke S6 guns and Quad turret where all hitting the Idris.
When the shields where down and the bottom PDC's on the Idris, we repositioned to start using Bespoke S6 and S10 torpedoes.
The 2 first torpedoes blew up in our face, severely damaging the Polaris, then the next 3 hit and turned the main engines on the Idris red.
The 6th torpedo blew in our face again and totaled our Bespoke S6 beyond use/repair.
We ended up launching 21 torps total, where some didn't even track the target, just went by it.
Now the allied fleet has jumped in and engaging, the enemy Idris take tons of pounding from 2 allied Idris's and escorts.
We unload another 2 torpedoes, both which exploding before it hits the target, probably hit by weapons fire from another allied ship ? cause enemy PDC were taken out at that point.
Our Conclusion is
Torpedoes are completely useless as far as combat works in the game today, even if the enemy ship is disabled, a warzone will never be flat calm for a torpedo to be able to do it's job at this point.
You are more likely to kill yourself or people with you or around you.
Torpedoes might work well against stations, outpost or stationary targets in a quiet place, but in an active warzone even with disabled ships, it simply doesn't work.
S6 Bespoke damage is way to low, our gunner hit a Gladius in the face and the shields just went down and it's ballistic weapon with shield penetration.
Our quad turret only had 5 shots per gun before they had to recharge even with all pips full on weapons.
Only good thing I can say now is that it can certainly take a lot of beating, we never used the refuel/repair/rearm buffs and survived and that the PDC's worked and did it's job.
But the only reason we probably were able to kill the Idris was because of the 2 allied Idris's that jumped in, not because the Polaris itself.
I'm gonna get rid of mine first chance I'll get, it's just a glorified armored transport, nothing more.
Chances of this ship getting railguns is probably pretty low as well.
Just tested it with 4 people in Pirate Swarm in Arena Commander (Live), were we have less server lag, desync etc. And I'm even more disappointed now.
Not sure if AC is a good testing bed, but it's certainly better then PU or EPTU.
Our setup was
1x Pilot (S3 missiles)
1x Bespoke S6 gunner
1-2x Quad Cannon Gunner (1 quad gunner swapped to torpedoes during Idris fight).
1x Torpedo Gunner
We saved all the big guns/ammo for last, the Idris.
First we killed all the adds(small ships like Hammerheads, Corsairs, Gladius's etc) then we turned our attention to the Idris
Avoiding the Idris fire was fairly easy and she's quite slow.
We started getting the shields down on the Idris, so S3 missiles, Bespoke S6 guns and Quad turret where all hitting the Idris.
When the shields where down and the bottom PDC's on the Idris, we repositioned to start using Bespoke S6 and S10 torpedoes.
The 2 first torpedoes blew up in our face, severely damaging the Polaris, then the next 3 hit and turned the main engines on the Idris red.
The 6th torpedo blew in our face again and totaled our Bespoke S6 beyond use/repair.
We ended up launching 21 torps total, where some didn't even track the target, just went by it.
Now the allied fleet has jumped in and engaging, the enemy Idris take tons of pounding from 2 allied Idris's and escorts.
We unload another 2 torpedoes, both which exploding before it hits the target, probably hit by weapons fire from another allied ship ? cause enemy PDC were taken out at that point.
Our Conclusion is
Torpedoes are completely useless as far as combat works in the game today, even if the enemy ship is disabled, a warzone will never be flat calm for a torpedo to be able to do it's job at this point.
You are more likely to kill yourself or people with you or around you.
Torpedoes might work well against stations, outpost or stationary targets in a quiet place, but in an active warzone even with disabled ships, it simply doesn't work.
S6 Bespoke damage is way to low, our gunner hit a Gladius in the face and the shields just went down and it's ballistic weapon with shield penetration.
Our quad turret only had 5 shots per gun before they had to recharge even with all pips full on weapons.
Only good thing I can say now is that it can certainly take a lot of beating, we never used the refuel/repair/rearm buffs and survived and that the PDC's worked and did it's job.
But the only reason we probably were able to kill the Idris was because of the 2 allied Idris's that jumped in, not because the Polaris itself.
I'm gonna get rid of mine first chance I'll get, it's just a glorified armored transport, nothing more.
Chances of this ship getting railguns is probably pretty low as well.
8replies
December 17th 2024 at 10:23 pm
Yep.
Horrendous interior design aside, the Polaris is not a capital ship at this point. It's just a beefier anti-fighter platform and king of L-ships.
It doesn't need to be an invincible and OP capital ship, but torpedoes and missiles in Star Citizen are just designed terribly (especially now that they've foolishly smashed and forced everyone into 500m fights where you literally can't use missiles or torps).
The fact that only like 3-4 out of the whole 28 torpedo load ever really hit is insane, especially now that they're making them 500,000 credits each (introducing PDS into this was a huge mistake, IMO--that should have remained a manual job for turret-crew to focus on). The fact that you also can only target from like 20km out, in a capital ship with capital radar in the 'newest' warship in the fleet, also makes the Polaris incredibly vulnerable. (Capital radar needs to have a huge radar bubble and the ability to lock torps from much farther out than small one-man bombers.)
"But capital ships are supposed to be expensive to use, bla bla bla." Sure. Except there needs to be an actual reason for that. Some kind of actual reward or outcome that isn't just "you blew up a random ship--grats." If they want it so that 3-4 Polaris have to overwhelm an Idris with a gazillion expensive torps, then there needs to be some kind of actual reason to do that beyond "yay we blew up a ship."
The issue is that there are like 9 bajillion Polaris ships out there now, and there will be just as many Idris and Javelins flying all over the place, so blowing up one of those isn't some critical important moment (not at all like EVE's Titans).
These ships are a dime a dozen, using torps to blow them up isn't important like they think it is, and the whole design of this game is trending in a really bad direction.
With how shit torpedoes are right now, they should be cheap to use and buy. If they want them to be insanely expensive, they need to practically be a guaranteed hit every time. That's the trade-off. (If the logic here is, "but we don't want people using a capital ship to attack smaller ships all the time," then make it so S10 torps can't lock onto anything smaller than a capital ship--just like how S7 guns shouldn't be able to lock onto anything smaller than an L ship.)
Horrendous interior design aside, the Polaris is not a capital ship at this point. It's just a beefier anti-fighter platform and king of L-ships.
It doesn't need to be an invincible and OP capital ship, but torpedoes and missiles in Star Citizen are just designed terribly (especially now that they've foolishly smashed and forced everyone into 500m fights where you literally can't use missiles or torps).
The fact that only like 3-4 out of the whole 28 torpedo load ever really hit is insane, especially now that they're making them 500,000 credits each (introducing PDS into this was a huge mistake, IMO--that should have remained a manual job for turret-crew to focus on). The fact that you also can only target from like 20km out, in a capital ship with capital radar in the 'newest' warship in the fleet, also makes the Polaris incredibly vulnerable. (Capital radar needs to have a huge radar bubble and the ability to lock torps from much farther out than small one-man bombers.)
"But capital ships are supposed to be expensive to use, bla bla bla." Sure. Except there needs to be an actual reason for that. Some kind of actual reward or outcome that isn't just "you blew up a random ship--grats." If they want it so that 3-4 Polaris have to overwhelm an Idris with a gazillion expensive torps, then there needs to be some kind of actual reason to do that beyond "yay we blew up a ship."
The issue is that there are like 9 bajillion Polaris ships out there now, and there will be just as many Idris and Javelins flying all over the place, so blowing up one of those isn't some critical important moment (not at all like EVE's Titans).
These ships are a dime a dozen, using torps to blow them up isn't important like they think it is, and the whole design of this game is trending in a really bad direction.
With how shit torpedoes are right now, they should be cheap to use and buy. If they want them to be insanely expensive, they need to practically be a guaranteed hit every time. That's the trade-off. (If the logic here is, "but we don't want people using a capital ship to attack smaller ships all the time," then make it so S10 torps can't lock onto anything smaller than a capital ship--just like how S7 guns shouldn't be able to lock onto anything smaller than an L ship.)
December 18th 2024 at 1:33 pm
Calm down! It's just 12+ years. Of course they haven't thought about capital ship fights yet. Let them rework the flight model a few more times and maybe in 7 to 9 years things will make more sense for capital ships. Maybe the Polaris MK2 will have better torpedos and a more thoughtful weapon loadout.
December 30th 2024 at 10:14 pm
Killing an EVE titan isn't an accomplishments when alliances that have access to large numbers of them are flush with tens of trillions in assets and liquid cash. Sitting on that many R64 moons and having that much production capacity is insane for generating profit and that was five years ago when I quit, not even mentioning WH or Trig crap.
The reasons people don't use them is because they don't want the bad killboard stats.
Comparing SC to EVE is an awful idea.
The reasons people don't use them is because they don't want the bad killboard stats.
Comparing SC to EVE is an awful idea.
December 18th 2024 at 9:23 pm
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/torpedoes-suck-and-will-always-suck-in-their-curre
I discussed this in big detail earlier on in the above thread. And then I went into more detail about how to deal with PDC balance cin other threads. Torpedoes suck in their current design schema, and its gonna be a painful road until CIG realizes that.
WE also need cruise missiles, but that's another story.
I discussed this in big detail earlier on in the above thread. And then I went into more detail about how to deal with PDC balance cin other threads. Torpedoes suck in their current design schema, and its gonna be a painful road until CIG realizes that.
WE also need cruise missiles, but that's another story.
December 19th 2024 at 12:30 pm
Having Torps as a primary weapon will not work for the capital battles CIG claim to be building towards.
Torps are just finisher weapons to be used on ships that are already disabled and disarmed, no longer a threat. just a time saving weapon.
Torp boats that lack any weapons to damage their intended targets have no choice but to either dumb fire, being potentially OP and game breaking or to just wait for the battle to be over so you can try to deathblow steal.
The concerns a lot of us have only become valid upon armour being implemented, some recognition from CIG that the weapon loadout would be buffed along with armour being introduced would prevent a lot of moaning.
The silence around this from CIG is suspicious at best.
Torps are just finisher weapons to be used on ships that are already disabled and disarmed, no longer a threat. just a time saving weapon.
Torp boats that lack any weapons to damage their intended targets have no choice but to either dumb fire, being potentially OP and game breaking or to just wait for the battle to be over so you can try to deathblow steal.
The concerns a lot of us have only become valid upon armour being implemented, some recognition from CIG that the weapon loadout would be buffed along with armour being introduced would prevent a lot of moaning.
The silence around this from CIG is suspicious at best.
