Alan Lewrie@Ramcat

Suggestions for custom keypad solutions

discussion
January 25th 2018 at 3:26 am
Panels & MFDs

Suggestions for custom keypad solutions

January 25th 2018 at 3:26 am
Panels & MFDs
After reading through the posts, I have decided to share my two cents.

I have been into this topic for quite a while, because I find gaming with a PC-keyboard extremely annoying.

I make a general distinction between hardware solutions (i.e. button boxes, or switch panels) and software solution (i.e. software based keypads, displayed on any touchscreen device)

I find physical buttons give the best feel, but they are a bit unflexible. I'd only go through the effort of designing one, once I have established exactly what I want, and how I want it set up. For that to happen, a software solution is ideal. And of course, there's the issue of cost.

When it comes to touch screen devices, one can either use an some wireless touch device, running iOS or Android, or one can use a touchscreen monitor.

So far I have worked with the following products for iOS:
  1. LEA extended input
  2. Frozen Pepper CCP (http://www.frozenpepper.it/ccp/)
  3. CustomKeypad (http://keypad.iosproapps.com)
  4. Action Pad (http://actionpad.co), and
  5. Quadro (https://www.quadro.me)
Comments so far:
Latency is not an issue for any of the iOS apps. All work virtually instantaneous.

LEA I find a pure pain in the butt to set up, with a steep learning curve. It might be really nice, once SC allows extraction of game data, and use the pad as a truely interactive device. Until then, I find LEA to be overkill, and too much of a hassle to further bother with.

CCP is Ok, but it didn't really rock my boat

Action Pad is also ok, but it seems to lack the possibility to create multiple layers, to manage a menu system. I have asked for clarification regarding this point, but have not heard from the dev in weeks.

Quadro results look nice out of the box, and without much effort. Quadro can be used to create an additional layer of depth per button. It seems, that for more intricate functions, coding is required. Also there are limitations concerning the looks of the buttons. Basically, you are stuck, which what the software has in its library. The definite pro is, that it is easy to work with, and can be set up on the fly.

CustomKeypad is similar in ease of use as Quadro, but offers some more versatility and flexibility, when it comes to aestetics. Also, the possibility to set up a layered menu system are not limited to one layer - there can be lots more. It is for the time being my prefered iOS app for the job.

However, there is another possibility. I have also attached a 10" touchscreen monitor, and installed Keyboard Designer (http://www.virtual-keyboard.com/) on the PC. In combination, TS-LCD and the runtime keyboard are a pretty neat package. There are only a few limtations when it comes to looks, it is very flexible, easy to set up, can run macros and is VBS codeable. Creating a working setup is less "easy" than with Quadro or CustomKeypad - though not really challenging. The result, however, is much more pleasing.

Latency is obviously no issue at all, as it is hard wired to the pc. Con might be, that it takes some GPU performance. I am running a 4790k/32GRam and a R9 390 (all at standard clock speed), and SC on full details does not strain the system at all. So for me, this is the best solution out of the lot...until I manage to design and build a custom button box.

23replies

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GreenEnergyKills@Ender-jr
January 25th 2018 at 6:12 am
January 25th 2018 at 6:12 am
I like physical buttons too. That's one of the reasons I made this:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50264/thread/fat-finger-controller-with-more-buttons

If CIG keeps their end up and expands keybinding capability, I'll eventually make panels for different stations. If CIG comes up with an API that feeds a real-time telemetry to a tablet, my panel will incorporate displays too but, I still like my buttons.
Alan Lewrie@Ramcat
January 25th 2018 at 10:11 am
January 25th 2018 at 10:11 am
SimpleSimon@SimpleSimon
January 25th 2018 at 5:53 am
January 25th 2018 at 5:53 am
“I find physical buttons give the best feel, but they are a bit unflexible”

Have you looked at elgatos Stream Deck?
Alan Lewrie@Ramcat
January 25th 2018 at 9:57 am
January 25th 2018 at 9:57 am
I have not. Have a link?
Johner Kruger@Mr_Lynch
January 25th 2018 at 12:04 pm
January 25th 2018 at 12:04 pm
Roadbeer@Roadbeer
January 26th 2018 at 1:47 am
January 26th 2018 at 1:47 am
I saw this on Linus Tech Tips last week and put it in my Amazon and NewEgg wish lists. at around $150, the depth it offers is pretty awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhPLhfP1b_s&t=3s

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or
Alan Lewrie@Ramcat
January 25th 2018 at 10:03 am
January 25th 2018 at 10:03 am
Found it. Interesting. Agreed, it does increase flexibility. Not for me though for various reasons. One being, that 150€ for 15 buttons abit steep. I'll keep it on the wishlist, still as a novelty.
SimpleSimon@SimpleSimon
January 25th 2018 at 11:44 am
January 25th 2018 at 11:44 am
It’s not 15 buttons.
Each button can become a folder that opens to cover the keypad so it’s pretty much infinite. You can have a main keypad where each key opens to new keypad down as far as you want all with individual pictures On the keys.

Personaly im eyeing off the VKB throttle with supplemental boards that may get released eventually and was looking at the stream deck for Emotes and other secondary uses.

So so jealous of you folk who put time and effort Into creating things.
Metal-Muffin@Metal-Muffin
January 25th 2018 at 1:53 pm
January 25th 2018 at 1:53 pm
So jealous of you people that can just go out and buy things.
Marcus Perry@MarcusPerry
January 25th 2018 at 11:27 am
January 25th 2018 at 11:27 am
Notably missing from the list: ROCCAT Power Grid.
Alan Lewrie@Ramcat
January 25th 2018 at 8:38 pm
January 25th 2018 at 8:38 pm
It is missing, because I have not worked with it, yet. Wouldn‘t be fair to comment on‘t. I might give it a try at one point, and comment; have a feeling it‘ll be a while before I do, given, that I have found a good working solution, and I want to get start using stuff tomtest usefulness in the game.
Marcus Perry@MarcusPerry
January 25th 2018 at 10:05 pm
January 25th 2018 at 10:05 pm
I didnt mean it as accusation, maybe I should have worded it better. Roccat Power Grid is the most widely used one I believe and I think you will find it a decend "middle ground".
Jacknife@Jacknife-TCSF
February 5th 2018 at 5:33 pm
February 5th 2018 at 5:33 pm
Unfortunately, Roccat Power-Grid seems to be near, at, or past end-of-life; if you've got an iOS device, it won't even install there any more.
Marcus Perry@MarcusPerry
February 5th 2018 at 10:37 pm
February 5th 2018 at 10:37 pm
Heh, that is unfortunate but I think we saw that coming. I THINK Third was in touch with the Roccat people and once hinted at something like that (I could be wrong though).

I switched to LEA as that seems to still be supported. More clumsy but more options.
HouseAtreides@Duke_Atreides
January 25th 2018 at 5:31 pm
January 25th 2018 at 5:31 pm
http://renderg.ru/rgcustom/

This dude is amazing. I have one of his devices. He is working on a MK4 version with open source firmware and expansions. Check out his Facebook for the new photos.

https://www.facebook.com/RGcustom/

He is active on here, he loves SC.
Alan Lewrie@Ramcat
January 25th 2018 at 8:40 pm
January 25th 2018 at 8:40 pm
Blime! I think I can see talent! Definitely worth a closer look.
[CSR] NemeSys@Star-Geezer
January 25th 2018 at 9:47 pm
January 25th 2018 at 9:47 pm
I have my tablets and touchscreens as well (and like you still trying to sort out apps/software), but if you prefer physical/tactile keys (as I do) you might check out - http://xkeys.com

I have these two models myself:
They are not particularly cheap (sometimes used on eBay), but the software is utilitarian and functional, they have two color programmable backlighting, use quality mechanical keys, customizeable keycaps with label/lens covers (including oversized double-wide/double-high/quadruple styles), and the ability to store your commands/functions/macros ON the device. They are also very sturdy..... I don't feel like it'll die horribly if it gets knocked off the desk.
Marcus Perry@MarcusPerry
January 25th 2018 at 10:08 pm
January 25th 2018 at 10:08 pm
The X-keys XK-60 is on my WANT list as well but due to desk space and current uncertainty in regards to SC keybindings I am holding off on getting one.
[CSR] NemeSys@Star-Geezer
January 25th 2018 at 10:28 pm
January 25th 2018 at 10:28 pm
True story, there may well be some things without shortcuts (I hope not many), but since X-Keys will let you save/program anything your keyboard can do (and keyboards won't go away completely), I think I'm safe. I've also discovered that with some Velcro and/or cheap brackets, you can mount them almost anywhere.... Even when you don't HAVE a desktop. :)
[ACESHIGH] Rom@Romulus-Stahl
January 26th 2018 at 1:08 am
January 26th 2018 at 1:08 am
If you are good with attached touchscreens you might want to look into Helios.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50264/thread/sc-with-helios-touch-screen-input
Alan Lewrie@Ramcat
January 28th 2018 at 1:02 am
January 28th 2018 at 1:02 am
Helios is Great piece of Kit. Works nicely with A10 Warthog. I don’t know if it will be able to help me extract game data from SC. For building a button box, I’d use arduino or a Leo Bodnar board to interface with SC through USB.
Alan Lewrie@Ramcat
January 28th 2018 at 12:46 am
January 28th 2018 at 12:46 am
No worries. Didn‘t take it as an accusation. The principle reason why I cannot even give it a try, is that the app does not seem to run on ios11.
HouseAtreides@Duke_Atreides
January 29th 2018 at 5:32 am
January 29th 2018 at 5:32 am
http://www.derekspearedesigns.com/button-controllers.html

https://www.infinitton.com/

Found both of these, haven't done much research yet but figured I'd post it here.