DisgracedAlmond@DisgracedAlmond

We got an item recovery stopgap... what about PVP repercussions?

discussion
March 14th at 1:01 pm
Gameplay

We got an item recovery stopgap... what about PVP repercussions?

March 14th at 1:01 pm
Gameplay

Okay, let me preface this.

I know PvP vs PvE servers have been the subject of debate for a while, and my personal opinion is that this is something that 100% shouldn't happen. I believe it is something that will only bring harm to the game's development, due to the potential splitting of the game's community, economic imbalances, as well as splitting the developmental efforts of CIG to make content for both PVP and PVE centered worlds. PVA has been in the scope of the game from the beginning, and I don't think that should change.

But...

There are many other things that have been in the scope of the game for a while, reputation systems, proper crime and punishment mechanics, etc. Virtually none of these are in the game for the moment. Keep in mind, since the 4.0 release, a large number of previous features of the game were broken or removed, INCLUDING ALL NATURALLY SPAWNED NPCs (excluding missions, and unique event locations such as supply or die depots and CZs). Those who have been playing SC for a while will likely be very familiar with both the police NPCs present at major locations throughout stanton, as well as the random encounters with Pirate NPCs who would interdict you in quantum travel. Furthermore, the tactical police NPCs, a group of very high-level ships that are incredibly difficult to defeat, would also pursue players with high crimestats, and respond to criminal activity. Furthermore, bounty markers on players also no longer function, which makes further allows criminal players to run rampant with no one easily being able to track and stop them. Due to this change, a question has to be asked.

Since the old NPCs were removed, what systems do we have in place now?

The answer? Very little. The ONLY criminal deterrent, exists exclusively in Stanton, in the form of crimestats that trigger when crimes are reported, and the only effect these have are making stations hostile if you fly a little too close to them... thats it. No wonder PVP has been much more of a concern lately, due to all former mechanisms of punishing criminal activity have been currently removed for refactor. Furthermore, in systems like pyro, reputation, which is supposed to act as a deterrant for going on murder sprees, is also not fully implemented, and with no bounty hunter or faction NPCs present to hunt down players that cause too much trouble.

My take.

Okay, so we've addressed the systems that are currently planned to be in place to secure stanton pyro, the systems that were removed, and the current lack of systems we have now. My personal take is that the current lack of protection systems is stanton is extremely problematic, and that some kind of simple solution should be implemented as a stopgap. Don't get me wrong though, things like player to player piracy should definitely stay, it's been in the scope of the game for a while, and is a feature present in many other space sim MMOs. You get caught by player(s) with your pants down and unprepared? Tough luck, you should lose your stuff. I don't do PVP, but i respect the fact that it needs to exist, and have been pirated myself of cargo or my ship a couple times in the resent patches, and hold no resentment for it. I only bring this topic to attention now for the sake of the community, so that we don't cause unnecessary discourse, and potentially upset the development of this game. But, stanton needs to be safer then it currently is, many other space sim MMOs like Elite and Eve have zones of varying security, with high security locations offering much more protection, while being attacked by players is still possible, there are more safeguards to deter this, and you are much more likely to be attacked out of nowhere, and more likely to get away less scathed than you would be in a less safe location. It seems to me that SC is trying to do the same thing, though the lack of current deterrents for criminals is making this problematic. However, while pyro still doesnt have its own unique deterrents yet, it still always has been marketed as a lawless hotspot. If someone kills or loots you in pyro, you shouldn't complain about that being possible, and its a risk you took the moment you made that jump, and you're left with the consequences of your actions if you journeyed into pyro unprepared. I believe SC should stick with this mindset, having areas where players are at more or less risk, both in PvP and PvE, but there is a time and place where such activities are better suited to be done, for both the sake of the aggressor and the victim's well being.

Now that I've highlighted the scope of what SC has planned to be, and what it likely will become, as well as the current lack of measures or systems that are planned, or ones that used to be in place. I ask CIG that for the sake of this community, can you start looking into potential solutions to help stabilize things and move the game closer towards what it's supposed to be in the meantime? I'm personally indifferent to the current issues, but i am aware that they infuriate, or make the game difficult to play for hundreds of others, and think it would be the best course of action to properly address this. Thanks for reading, keep up the good work CIG! and I hope you all have a good one!

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Beltalowda@The_Belter
March 14th at 3:59 pm
March 14th at 3:59 pm
a simple T0 implementation could be somenthing like "if CS player 20km or less of non CS player, spawn X ammount of ships to attack CS player" spawning 8 -10 ships in elite statuts in the current state of NPCs would be enough to help PVE players, the problem is that PVE players are blind and deaf, so they probably will just sit there and do nothing like they always do and eventually die anyways xD
Diveaholic1@Dsyf-Dive
March 15th at 4:18 am
March 15th at 4:18 am
I think a nother answer would be to adjust the timer for time spent in jail to count IN GAME time ONLY its to easy to get a high CS end up in jail and decide
screw it I just wont play until tomorrow when I can get out of jail for free and go out and start harassing other players all over again
Make them either do their time or work the time off and do a way with that stupid ass escape from Prison BULL CRAP make them think twice about getting caught next time prison is supposed to be a place you wish to avoid not a joke or a after thought which it is both as it is now
Rath McTaren@Ornerycuss
March 17th at 9:02 pm
March 17th at 9:02 pm
I'd agree with that, except I know how often I as a lawful player have wound up in jail.
Diveaholic1@Dsyf-Dive
March 18th at 4:19 am
March 18th at 4:19 am
Rath McTarensaid
I'd agree with that, except I know how often I as a lawful player have wound up in jail.
i never said it was a perfect system but still beats the one we have in place now
Onatac@Onatac
March 17th at 7:18 pm
March 17th at 7:18 pm
Player bounties need to come back. They took up quite a bit of my playtime when the mechanic was active. Not sure why they turned them off.

It needed to be a better system, though. Maybe that's why they were disabled. I am not a fan of the target having a marker directly on them. It didn't really feel like I was bounty hunting; just going to a marker and firing an S9 torpedo.

Anyway, having them back would keep pirates busier, less efficient, and they'd have to move around instead of just hanging out in one spot. Stubborn people who insist on using the same route over and over... That's on you.

FYI, as I've said in many other posts, Stanton is not safe. That's per lore: "Enter at your own risk" is in their literature.
Fred Kyong@FredKyong
March 14th at 5:05 pm
March 14th at 5:05 pm
what is pvp?
Blackout@Blackout
March 14th at 5:15 pm
March 14th at 5:15 pm
"Player versus Player"
CaptainKillgore@CaptainKillgore
March 14th at 9:40 pm
March 14th at 9:40 pm
Multiplayer game
Arrclyde@Arrclyde
March 15th at 7:08 am
March 15th at 7:08 am
CaptainKillgoresaid
Multiplayer game
PvE is also mulpiplayer.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 15th at 12:45 am
March 15th at 12:45 am
In Pyro there isn't supposed to be ANY PvP deterrent, or consequance. None.

However Stanton should be much safer, and safe systems should make PvP close to impossible, to literally impossible. This way everyone's happy. And those who believe they should be able to play Pyro PvE only... can play something else. Their opinion don't matter anyway.
Arrclyde@Arrclyde
March 15th at 7:14 am
March 15th at 7:14 am
Skallywaaaghsaid
In Pyro there isn't supposed to be ANY PvP deterrent, or consequance. None.

However Stanton should be much safer, and safe systems should make PvP close to impossible, to literally impossible. This way everyone's happy. And those who believe they should be able to play Pyro PvE only... can play something else. Their opinion don't matter anyway.
That is wrong. You do not have UEE authority in Pyro. But attacking random people in Pyro is not meant to be without consequences. Maybe you think that Pyro is final in its current form, but you are wrong.

And how about you stop trying to tell people what they should play or not, as you have no authority. And apperently not enough knowledge about the plans for SC to make any suggestions.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 17th at 5:46 pm
March 17th at 5:46 pm
There will be no consequance whatsoever for PvP in Pyro, unless you kill a player directly in or very close to an outpost of a gang you're not friendly with. The wholse system is PURPOSE MADE to be a PvP zone. Wether players want to remain blind to this and keep compleining about PvP in a PvP zone is up to them. But the killing will always continue in Pyro.

I am telling no one how they should play. I am telling them what to expect when they visit certain zones in the game. it's not a choice, it's a fact. No matter the rep a PvE player build, in null security systems like Pyro, THEY are the content.
Piiba@Piiba
March 17th at 6:27 pm
March 17th at 6:27 pm
No, that's not how long term reputation works.
If you kill a player of your same faction even in the middle of nowhere, you will lose rep with your faction.

So if you are playing to gain rep with a certain faction, you need first to scan to see who are you targeting.

Also, even if you don't care about rep, if you kill evryone on sight casually, you will end up with all the faction hostile, effectively removing you from any gameplay and service avaiable in pyro.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 17th at 8:34 pm
March 17th at 8:34 pm
you will lose rep with your faction.
Yes, of course. What PvE players seem to falsely believe is that the CFP will send a fleet to protect them while they mine, which is frankly hilarious.
Arrclyde@Arrclyde
March 17th at 6:12 pm
March 17th at 6:12 pm
Oh man..... There are no PvP zones. Only a PvP mode in AC. Its LAWLESS space, not a PvP space. And we will see how far those spaces reach. Pyro doesn't have commarrays, but Gands certainly have patrols and scanners in their territorium.

Ans Pyro is NOT a null sec system. Its a lawless system, and the inhabitants have their own territory and rules. You seem to mistakenly think that there is no security in the whole system. But that is not correct. The spaces for security ratings are much smaller than a whole system.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 17th at 8:36 pm
March 17th at 8:36 pm
The only security there will ever be in pyro is around settlements, if you have bad rep with them. No faction will send fleets, or even a ship, to protect a player while he mine or salvage. No PvP will have any repercussion beside rep loss or gain, and of course, If I'm in the middle of a settlement, the NPC would start to shoot.

Pyro is absolutely a PvP zone, purpose made for it, wether you want to realise it or no.
DarknessCalling@DarknessCalling
March 17th at 2:49 pm
March 17th at 2:49 pm
The gangs have their own idea of order. If you start horning in on their turf by fucking up random people, they're going to have something to say about it. It may not be the same as Stanton, but there'll still be consequences.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 17th at 5:44 pm
March 17th at 5:44 pm
Their turf extend to a couple kilometers outside their outposts. We'll be fine.
DarknessCalling@DarknessCalling
March 18th at 2:42 pm
March 18th at 2:42 pm
But it'll give less adventurous players a better chance, and ensure that people can at least exit their hangars.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 18th at 4:37 pm
March 18th at 4:37 pm
Of course. Nothing bad in that. The danger will be when they venture outside the confines of said outposts of their chosen faction, or during transit between them. But with rep, it should offer them some security in and around their chosen faction's outposts / Stations.
Bah@Bah
March 17th at 5:23 pm
March 17th at 5:23 pm
Tier zero and stopgap are two different things. The later tiers are built upon the previous ones, while stopgap measures are tossed out entirely. And quite frankly, if there's one thing that we don't need is even more wasted effort.
Piiba@Piiba
March 17th at 6:22 pm
March 17th at 6:22 pm
Yes, but i would say that the only thing we have better than before is station and AA turret effectiveness.