DisgracedAlmond@DisgracedAlmond

We got an item recovery stopgap... what about PVP repercussions?

discussion
March 14th at 1:01 pm
Gameplay

We got an item recovery stopgap... what about PVP repercussions?

March 14th at 1:01 pm
Gameplay

Okay, let me preface this.

I know PvP vs PvE servers have been the subject of debate for a while, and my personal opinion is that this is something that 100% shouldn't happen. I believe it is something that will only bring harm to the game's development, due to the potential splitting of the game's community, economic imbalances, as well as splitting the developmental efforts of CIG to make content for both PVP and PVE centered worlds. PVA has been in the scope of the game from the beginning, and I don't think that should change.

But...

There are many other things that have been in the scope of the game for a while, reputation systems, proper crime and punishment mechanics, etc. Virtually none of these are in the game for the moment. Keep in mind, since the 4.0 release, a large number of previous features of the game were broken or removed, INCLUDING ALL NATURALLY SPAWNED NPCs (excluding missions, and unique event locations such as supply or die depots and CZs). Those who have been playing SC for a while will likely be very familiar with both the police NPCs present at major locations throughout stanton, as well as the random encounters with Pirate NPCs who would interdict you in quantum travel. Furthermore, the tactical police NPCs, a group of very high-level ships that are incredibly difficult to defeat, would also pursue players with high crimestats, and respond to criminal activity. Furthermore, bounty markers on players also no longer function, which makes further allows criminal players to run rampant with no one easily being able to track and stop them. Due to this change, a question has to be asked.

Since the old NPCs were removed, what systems do we have in place now?

The answer? Very little. The ONLY criminal deterrent, exists exclusively in Stanton, in the form of crimestats that trigger when crimes are reported, and the only effect these have are making stations hostile if you fly a little too close to them... thats it. No wonder PVP has been much more of a concern lately, due to all former mechanisms of punishing criminal activity have been currently removed for refactor. Furthermore, in systems like pyro, reputation, which is supposed to act as a deterrant for going on murder sprees, is also not fully implemented, and with no bounty hunter or faction NPCs present to hunt down players that cause too much trouble.

My take.

Okay, so we've addressed the systems that are currently planned to be in place to secure stanton pyro, the systems that were removed, and the current lack of systems we have now. My personal take is that the current lack of protection systems is stanton is extremely problematic, and that some kind of simple solution should be implemented as a stopgap. Don't get me wrong though, things like player to player piracy should definitely stay, it's been in the scope of the game for a while, and is a feature present in many other space sim MMOs. You get caught by player(s) with your pants down and unprepared? Tough luck, you should lose your stuff. I don't do PVP, but i respect the fact that it needs to exist, and have been pirated myself of cargo or my ship a couple times in the resent patches, and hold no resentment for it. I only bring this topic to attention now for the sake of the community, so that we don't cause unnecessary discourse, and potentially upset the development of this game. But, stanton needs to be safer then it currently is, many other space sim MMOs like Elite and Eve have zones of varying security, with high security locations offering much more protection, while being attacked by players is still possible, there are more safeguards to deter this, and you are much more likely to be attacked out of nowhere, and more likely to get away less scathed than you would be in a less safe location. It seems to me that SC is trying to do the same thing, though the lack of current deterrents for criminals is making this problematic. However, while pyro still doesnt have its own unique deterrents yet, it still always has been marketed as a lawless hotspot. If someone kills or loots you in pyro, you shouldn't complain about that being possible, and its a risk you took the moment you made that jump, and you're left with the consequences of your actions if you journeyed into pyro unprepared. I believe SC should stick with this mindset, having areas where players are at more or less risk, both in PvP and PvE, but there is a time and place where such activities are better suited to be done, for both the sake of the aggressor and the victim's well being.

Now that I've highlighted the scope of what SC has planned to be, and what it likely will become, as well as the current lack of measures or systems that are planned, or ones that used to be in place. I ask CIG that for the sake of this community, can you start looking into potential solutions to help stabilize things and move the game closer towards what it's supposed to be in the meantime? I'm personally indifferent to the current issues, but i am aware that they infuriate, or make the game difficult to play for hundreds of others, and think it would be the best course of action to properly address this. Thanks for reading, keep up the good work CIG! and I hope you all have a good one!

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Arrclyde@Arrclyde
March 17th at 6:12 pm
March 17th at 6:12 pm
Oh man..... There are no PvP zones. Only a PvP mode in AC. Its LAWLESS space, not a PvP space. And we will see how far those spaces reach. Pyro doesn't have commarrays, but Gands certainly have patrols and scanners in their territorium.

Ans Pyro is NOT a null sec system. Its a lawless system, and the inhabitants have their own territory and rules. You seem to mistakenly think that there is no security in the whole system. But that is not correct. The spaces for security ratings are much smaller than a whole system.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 17th at 8:36 pm
March 17th at 8:36 pm
The only security there will ever be in pyro is around settlements, if you have bad rep with them. No faction will send fleets, or even a ship, to protect a player while he mine or salvage. No PvP will have any repercussion beside rep loss or gain, and of course, If I'm in the middle of a settlement, the NPC would start to shoot.

Pyro is absolutely a PvP zone, purpose made for it, wether you want to realise it or no.
Arrclyde@Arrclyde
March 17th at 8:54 pm
March 17th at 8:54 pm
Skallywaaaghsaid
The only security there will ever be in pyro is around settlements, if you have bad rep with them. No faction will send fleets, or even a ship, to protect a player while he mine or salvage. No PvP will have any repercussion beside rep loss or gain, and of course, If I'm in the middle of a settlement, the NPC would start to shoot.

Pyro is absolutely a PvP zone, purpose made for it, wether you want to realise it or no.
You don't realize what you are talking. Its not a PvP zone, as its not a PvP system. Its a lawless system. You know, from lawless NPC factions?

Nobody said they would send fleets. But you seem to think there won't be any NPC faction ships in the verse besides those for missions. Not that this would be a mistake you make.
Skallywaaagh@Skallywaaagh
March 17th at 8:56 pm
March 17th at 8:56 pm
Of course there will be NPC ships. None that will have been sent to protect you though. Pyro is literally made to attract PvP players there, and keep us there. or... Or you want we transform Stanton and Castra in full on battlefield too? Because let's pretend there'd be some KIND of security in Pyro, then why would we stick to it and not go berserk in other systems as well?

You're wrong my friend, Pyro is purpose made for PvP.
Arrclyde@Arrclyde
March 17th at 9:03 pm
March 17th at 9:03 pm
Nobody said they have been send. But if its by chance a group of ships from a faction i am friendly with and you are not, you out of luck. And when they arr friends with you, i have bad luck.

I am neither: your friend or wrong. Pyro is PvP AND PvE. Not PvP first or anything like that. Its lawless. PvP does have OTHER consequences in Pyro than it has in Systems like Pyro. And its not really about PvP, its about attacking members of factions, players or NPCs.

I think ypu'll see what i mean when the game gets closer to 1.0.